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jagboat

  • Karma: +3/-0
CVX JAG
« on: January 08, 2017, 11:37:31 AM »
Hi all
I am Arnaud from Paris
My garden is loaded with a bad weapon Carlson CVX 20 jet :) [ Specified attachment is not available ]
this is the only way to enjoy legaly a fat v8 in a turbine over here in france
No motor show lousy dragsters are lucky enough to ride our oceans or our nice rivers  :(
I ride basically in center of Paris , it is a magical touristic tour on the Seine causing 8 millions passengers a year , world's biggest port river passenger trafic sort of
& a bit of freedom , it's full of cops hype & serious no speed allowed  12M/h you are taped & oftenly arrested, beetwen huge Bateau mouches in lane with no brake
Well we do have our Lake havasu by force , barely 3 miles of happyness in Suresnes where high speed is recommended for watersports ski wake fun & no matters
All kinds of boats are required but a jet boat's better, only option is a kinda street legal Glastron Carlson with its inboard engine lookalike & I love it
the thing is in progress , main target is to have good power,less weight, no noise , no gassomisation & no technical worry [ Specified attachment is not available ]


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jagboat

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: CVX JAG
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2017, 11:44:38 AM »
Coming from Montreal Canada last year
costed me 3000 € complete fresh berkeley , engine ??
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jagboat

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: CVX JAG
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2017, 11:49:18 AM »
 
Let's go
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jimpen

  • Karma: +68/-0
CVX JAG
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2017, 11:57:18 AM »
Simple move. Best advice I would have.


Sent from my iPhone using SoCal Jet Boats
  • Boat #1: 18 CP
  • Boat #2: Xcursion 23 RF
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jagboat

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: CVX JAG
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2017, 12:05:42 PM »
to the garage   all is very old & rusty , I don't really know what i do expect ??  beurk :-[
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jagboat

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: CVX JAG
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2017, 12:18:32 PM »
Time to go Mr 460 you are so fat maaaaaaan !!!
For such a simple euro dude a badass 460 is not a current problem
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jagboat

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: CVX JAG
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2017, 12:30:03 PM »
I did my best to dismantle the thing , access to rod studs was shortissime
beside some rust the engine is almost new
I am happy after a good cleaning I do have a 460 pretty well rebuilt by some CHARRON   is it famous ?
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jagboat

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: CVX JAG
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2017, 12:50:20 PM »
So what we have
- 1 good hull
- 1 freshly rebuilt rotten engine , job was done in 1983  ok ok
- 1 berkeley JCE rebuilt also  but never used

I was really into ford v8 jet boat power thing until the crank main bearing came on scene yelling he's tired even dead
how come a side bearing is worn when all the rest is in  ;D ;D ;D  condittion ??
the Crank is dead only on the center side of the journal meaning pressure had to be apply big time
too bad at that time they seem to blew the pump bearing or so & ruined the engine by loss of oil pressure
They rebuilt the pump & realise a crank noise
well I am  :-\
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jagboat

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: CVX JAG
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2017, 01:05:18 PM »
I am into swap for astro sign then the idea of buying a new crank & €€€ is negleted
What kind of affordable engine is available quick on the street  , 400hp v8 easy to work  , i thought Audi... almost bought a RS4 very cheap amazing !!
but those 420 hp are way high 7000 rpm  it won't beat the low torque of the 7500cm3 ford I need a strong light supercharged V8 , there 's only the jag !!


2500 € inc full ignition
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jagboat

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: CVX JAG
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2017, 01:10:25 PM »
this adapter was a  :o :-\ :'( :o >:D ;D ;D ;D to draw & machine



hope it will handle the torque
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jagboat

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: CVX JAG
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2017, 01:17:23 PM »
I was frieakenout by the idea of a no way it goes
but it seems born in it so here is the jag boat or the Jag Jet Joat
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jagboat

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: CVX JAG
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2017, 01:29:58 PM »
the jag bell gearbox is used
 an adapter is in progress to match the gap

XKR 4,0 is 420hp with pulley kit , equal torque of 460 & spins 7000rpm
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jagboat

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: CVX JAG
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2017, 01:37:16 PM »
As an humble mechanics i am really open to comment as I don't really see where i'm going but I plow into :banghead:
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Flusher

  • Karma: +84/-0
Re: CVX JAG
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2017, 01:41:08 PM »
this adapter was a  :o :-\ :'( :o >:D ;D ;D ;D to draw & machine

(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link) (Attachment Link) (Attachment Link) (Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)

hope it will handle the torque

Nice work on the PTO.

I'm excited to see your rigging.
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"I want to roll with my brother Joe" - Joe Bateman - January 29, 1950 ~ November 27, 2013

Flusher

  • Karma: +84/-0
Re: CVX JAG
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2017, 01:53:44 PM »
As an humble mechanics i am really open to comment as I don't really see where i'm going but I plow into :banghead:

What is the height difference between the original 3-point mount bell and your gearbox bell?  With your machining skills, looks like it will be easy.  Just make sure the drive line yoke doesn't bottom out on the pump shaft and you have 3.2 - 4.7mm clearance.
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"I want to roll with my brother Joe" - Joe Bateman - January 29, 1950 ~ November 27, 2013

jagboat

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: CVX JAG
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2017, 02:19:34 PM »
Hi Flusher thanks for interest

from bell to the clamp on the pump it miss 60mm 
i start with a peace of alu 200x300x60   mm
it's been design now on autocad , i'm too bad in cad
3,7 4,2  you mean yokes / pump shaft  to touch ? yes sounds good not to kill the jag I guess it's not engeneered to have high axial pressure neither the ford
how come the pump move that much ; isn't the shaft bearing well tight to keep the faith ?
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Flusher

  • Karma: +84/-0
Re: CVX JAG
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2017, 05:18:56 PM »
Hi Flusher thanks for interest

from bell to the clamp on the pump it miss 60mm 
i start with a peace of alu 200x300x60   mm
it's been design now on autocad , i'm too bad in cad
3,7 4,2  you mean yokes / pump shaft  to touch ? yes sounds good not to kill the jag I guess it's not engeneered to have high axial pressure neither the ford
how come the pump move that much ; isn't the shaft bearing well tight to keep the faith ?

The hull flexes.  There is slight clearance in the pump thrust bearing and bowl pressure pushes the impeller and shaft forward in the suction housing.  The crankshaft thrust bearing can not handle the thrust loads.  Oil pressure, taking the path of least resistance, will flow to the front and the rear surface will go dry.  The crankshaft and bearing thrust surfaces burn up pretty quickly with that kind of load on them.  The 1/8-inch [3.2mm] to 3/16-inch [4.7mm] provides a little free float to prevent solid contact.

To give an idea of how much thrust force we are talking, a jet pump with an A impeller at 9-inch [228.6mm] diameter, producing 100 PSI [689.5 kPa] of bowl pressure, will produce 6,361 lbs [28,295.1N] force.

Engagement won't be an issue. The splines don't roll or shear, usually the OEM 304 stainless steel shaft will twist after the yoke.  I wouldn't worry about that until you hit the 600 horsepower range or install a stainless impeller.

Lastly, verify that the yoke slides easily all the way on the shaft.  You don't want the splines binding either.
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"I want to roll with my brother Joe" - Joe Bateman - January 29, 1950 ~ November 27, 2013

Flusher

  • Karma: +84/-0
Re: CVX JAG
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2017, 05:25:29 PM »
You will be running a closed cooling system?
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"I want to roll with my brother Joe" - Joe Bateman - January 29, 1950 ~ November 27, 2013

jagboat

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: CVX JAG
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2017, 12:47:08 AM »

 OK so this is what happens to the 460 , no clearance or dead pump bearing killed it , I will pay attention by the time I built the motor mounts

 Too bad I was excited by the bbf feeling but it gives opportunity to give a good diet to the boat +300 kg to -200kg , aluminium is way lighter
 
 Yes good thought I am planning intercooler & closed cooling , seems easy to achieve , inlet manifold for the supercharger is water cooled

 I am also in the exhaust manifold build , I start with a pair of Ford 5.0 headers , ports are not centered as the jag but I will cut & weld
 I will box the header with some stainless sheet as I saw some company doing
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jagboat

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: CVX JAG
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2017, 12:55:11 AM »

to food my v8 passion i work on a sbc 283 from a 19 Chris Craft 1960 that is gardened rebuilt as well
All the top will be aluminium edelbrock to lighthen & boost the perf
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jagboat

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: CVX JAG
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2017, 11:06:48 AM »
In order to fit the engine in , I need to make a spacer between the jag bell & the pump
 I did a test fit & measured what was missing , around 60mm , with in mind a bit of play thX Flusher !!

i will start the thing with a piece of alu 300x200x60   

 first is to check the bolt pattern & measurement of the bell , let's take the pied a coulisse

 then all is drawn CAD on catia

 It is so cool  to see the part being revealed within some clicks       

 The file will be forwarded to my  mate directly into the Mill machine

 then I 'll have it in real   

 smell like water jet suddenly!!! . oups it's me sorry ^-^
« Last Edit: January 11, 2017, 11:34:54 AM by jagboat »
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Flusher

  • Karma: +84/-0
Re: CVX JAG
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2017, 12:52:27 PM »
Did you compensate for the difference in the length of the drive line stack up?

You need to base the adapter thickness on the distance from the rear surface of the block to the tip of the drive line plus 3.2mm.

You can't directly measure the difference in bell housing height.

Measure the distance from the rear surface of the block to the crankshaft flange.  Add the thickness of your flywheel/flexplate.  Add the thickness of your 2-piece PTO. Add the length of your drive line.  Add 3.2mm clearance.  Do this for the 460 also.  The difference is the height of your adapter.

The difference in height between bells is irrelevant without comparing all the other parts.
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"I want to roll with my brother Joe" - Joe Bateman - January 29, 1950 ~ November 27, 2013

Flusher

  • Karma: +84/-0
Re: CVX JAG
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2017, 12:54:19 PM »
CAD drawings look killer so far
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"I want to roll with my brother Joe" - Joe Bateman - January 29, 1950 ~ November 27, 2013

jagboat

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: CVX JAG
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2017, 06:13:25 PM »

I've put the engine on the boat with the coupler / pto  in position , went to bottom shaft
then I added a bit of play so I went to around 60mm
I did not compare bell height to determine measurement that's for sure , engine are way different !!
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jagboat

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: CVX JAG
« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2017, 06:18:43 PM »
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