Give me The Basics

« **on:** March 30, 2013, 07:00:43 PM »

Hello everyone!
Im new to the whole jet boating thing myself and just wanted to get some advice from some of the seasoned pros on here.

I just bought a 1969 Esquire jet boat without an engine and dropped in a 460 since that was what its set-up for. It seems to run well but I want more!

I made the mistake of not putting a cam in it since at the point of all this I had not had it in the water yet I just wanted to make sure it floats so i went as stock as possible to keep it cheap.
Good news it floats but its not a performer. It ran today at about 54 miles an hour, so quick to get there but thats all it has.
I was hoping for some suggestions on a cam or other mods to get more out of it. Im only turning 4200 rpms and cant get anymore. I know that the motor came out of a service truck and had an rv cam in it which I believe to be the main problem.

So far the mods are :
bassett water injected headers
weind intake
holley 650 double pumper
hei distributer

Thanks for any suggestions on a good cam set up or anyrhing else you can help with.
Also its a berkley jet

« **Reply #1 on:** March 30, 2013, 07:46:23 PM »

You're going to need more carb to go along with a better cam. Can't really reccomend a cam but atleast an 850dp

« **Reply #2 on:** March 30, 2013, 08:10:29 PM »

Quote from: nolongergreen on March 30, 2013, 07:00:43 PM

So far the mods are :

Quote from: nolongergreen on March 30, 2013, 07:00:43 PM

bassett water injected headers

You running mufflers?

Quote from: nolongergreen on March 30, 2013, 07:00:43 PM

weind intake

Which one?

Quote from: nolongergreen on March 30, 2013, 07:00:43 PM

holley 650 double pumper

Woops... Here in lies the issue. With a jet pump, the jet can absorb every ounce of torque the motor can muster up. This lowers the vacuum pulled by the engine by a huge amount, making it difficult for the engine to pull in air. A larger carburetor will get more air into the motor by simple physics.

Quote from: nolongergreen on March 30, 2013, 07:00:43 PM

hei distributer

Any idea what your running the max timing at?

Quote from: nolongergreen on March 30, 2013, 07:00:43 PM

Thanks for any suggestions on a good cam set up or anyrhing else you can help with.
Also its a berkley jet

Any idea what impeller you have and what RPM it will run at.. Also, how do you run the boat?

With just a bit more information, I'm sure some of the talent on here can recommend a killer combo. If it was a bow tie, I could be of more help, but with the tricky valve train geometry of the Ford, I am probably not your huckleberry.

GT

« **Reply #3 on:** March 30, 2013, 08:32:10 PM »

if your looking to get a better cam call the cam manufacturer of your choice ask them what they recommend. and like gt jet im not a ford guy hard to say.

« **Reply #4 on:** March 30, 2013, 08:55:07 PM »

whats the casting number on the heads d3?
prolly get more bang for buck with a diverter

« **Reply #5 on:** March 31, 2013, 07:21:57 AM »

Its a weind stealth intake
No mufflers
As far as the timing, the distributer is set up like it came as far as the advance. The timing tab is not on the cover so we just set it best we could by feel and sound.
To get it right I know we need to take the time to put timing tape on the balancer and come up with a timing tab.

Obviuosly im not a mechanic, I own a Carpet Cleaning company. Ask me about carpet, I can give you answers.

Im just trying to get a feel for what I can expect to get from this motor/ boat.
I spoke with a supposive "legend" here locally who told me to change the cam and toss the distributer for a msd and he would "cut me a deal" by installing them for only $2500.00. I almost laughed in his face. The best part is he told me that the best I would see out of the boat after spending the 2500 would be about 55mph, lol. I hit that yesterday like it sits.

Im just looking for advice before I order something thats not going to work right.

Another thing I keep getting is that one of the worst things I can do is put too big of a carb on it but I had an s-10 with a 355 in it with a 750 dp so im lost on why everyone around here is thinking a 750 or larger is going to be too big. I dont see how, or at least to a point.

I have a buddy who will install the cam and set everything up for around 150.00 so Im just looking to see suggestions before I break out the wallet.
What are these things capable of top speed ect. with a basically stock motor with a cam?
The guy I bought the boat from has about 15,000 just in his motor. Im not looking to go crazy like that, just basic bolt on stuff.

Thanks,
Steven

« **Reply #6 on:** March 31, 2013, 08:02:52 AM »

asking your boat to do say around 65 is a good start. if your buddy is a mechanic have him find a couple of cams and have him show you the specs of them id say start with something mild. you dont want a really radical cam with a stock motor. it just wont work.

« **Reply #7 on:** March 31, 2013, 08:07:35 AM »

Barrow a larger carb from a friend and see if that helps. If its a stock motor u should be able to get a timming tab from a junk yard. then set your timming for total advance. two good places to start.

« **Reply #8 on:** March 31, 2013, 09:00:18 AM »

A good reliable combination for the 460 is try to find a set of c8ve or dove c heads which should give you 10-1 compression and get a cam kit from comp cams 305h with springs and lifters. And a 850 Cfm with 50cc accelerater pumps . You can shop this out and find all parts and gaskets for under 1500.00 and you will be twisting 5800 Rpms ,depending on what's inside your pump, you got a great start its a ford

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« **Reply #9 on:** March 31, 2013, 11:31:04 AM »

Quote from: wetnwild on March 31, 2013, 09:00:18 AM

A good reliable combination for the 460 is try to find a set of c8ve or dove c heads which should give you 10-1 compression and get a cam kit from comp cams 305h with springs and lifters. And a 850 Cfm with 50cc accelerater pumps . You can shop this out and find all parts and gaskets for under 1500.00 and you will be twisting 5800 Rpms ,depending on what's inside your pump, you got a great start its a ford

Sent from Wendy on my iPhone using SoCalJetBoats mobile app

5800 rpm will sprinkle that Ford all over the bilge....

There is little to no reason to ever turn a pump faster than 5,200.

That being said, more information is needed about the current set up.

Stay away from fancy ignition systems for now, you could pill of the HEI and never see a single rpm gain.

Whoever said you cab easily over carb. a jet, just don't know jets.

Let me give you a scenario of what it's going on in a jet, take a heavy car and drive wot up the steepest hill you can find. That is how a jet absorbs hp.

GT

« **Reply #10 on:** March 31, 2013, 11:44:12 AM »

The first two responses, myself and Gt both say larger carb. Cam it all you want, but the carb you have now is a huge bottle neck. And I agree with Ralph, a place divertor is always a best bang for buck. And I'm not sure which ford guru you spoke to, but if it wasn't Ralph, A&D engines or Paul Kane I'd check with them.

« **Reply #11 on:** March 31, 2013, 03:36:51 PM »

Camshafts just move the torque curve which gives you more horepower at high rpm's.
Horsepower makes you fast, Torque makes you quick. There is a difference

And the stock foundation on a 460 ford are much stronger than gm.

I can twist. Mine all day long at 7200 rpm 3 seasons on it zero blow by and 165 #'s compression in each cylinder not a pound difference between cylinders

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« **Reply #12 on:** March 31, 2013, 05:03:19 PM »

Can anyone tell me what engine I have d9te-ab.
It also has 4d18 and an X with a backwards 2 in the valley.
Thanks
Also The casting Numbers on the heads are under the valve covers, Correct?

« **Reply #13 on:** March 31, 2013, 05:31:50 PM »

Quote from: nolongergreen on March 31, 2013, 05:03:19 PM

Can anyone tell me what engine I have d9te-ab.
It also has 4d18 and an X with a backwards 2 in the valley.
Thanks
Also The casting Numbers on the heads are under the valve covers, Correct?

i believe the block is 1979 and up they other numbers/letters is the date code,
the head #is above the ex port right below the v/c rail
the cyl are longer in your block if i remember rite

« **Reply #14 on:** March 31, 2013, 05:41:03 PM »

I pulled the valve cover and saw a bunch of different things so bare with me.
*The numbers 201
*there was what looked like a "W" with a big "C" and a smaller "C" kinda inside it
* 1h8
*ford logo
*circle with the numbers 1,3,5,7,9 or a 6 around the circle.
Sorry I know I probably overkilled it but thats what was under there

« **Reply #15 on:** March 31, 2013, 05:45:42 PM »

sorry........ d3ve a2a

« **Reply #16 on:** March 31, 2013, 05:47:17 PM »

The numbers on right above the the spark plugs , you don't need the valve covers removed to see it

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« **Reply #17 on:** March 31, 2013, 05:49:28 PM »

The block and heads are from a 79 thru 87 ford and the blocks were used in there trucks

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« **Reply #18 on:** March 31, 2013, 06:03:54 PM »

Quote from: wetnwild on March 31, 2013, 03:36:51 PM

Camshafts just move the torque curve which gives you more horepower at high rpm's.
Horsepower makes you fast, Torque makes you quick. There is a difference

And the stock foundation on a 460 ford are much stronger than gm.

I can twist. Mine all day long at 7200 rpm 3 seasons on it zero blow by and 165 #'s compression in each cylinder not a pound difference between cylinders

Sent from Wendy on my iPhone using SoCalJetBoats mobile app

Imho valve train on the bbf if the Achilles heel.
Especially at high rpm. Goofy push rod angles...

Power curves can be brought way down low to.

Not going to get into the torque vs HP pissing match again, but without torque, there is no hp. You don't always need more rpm to make more HP, the equation works with higher sustained torque as well.

The performance world always wants you to believe it takes zillions of rpm to make good HP, gobs of torque will do the same thing. Keep in mind the volumetric efficiency of the pump in stock form Peters out at about 5500 RPMs.

GT

« **Reply #19 on:** March 31, 2013, 06:09:07 PM »

Ok, with the little research I just did (Google) it seems I own the second worse flowing heads made for the 460.
With that being said Im going to do the 850 dp carb but is it all in the heads holding me back or will it still perform decent with just the carb untill I can find a set of heads?

« **Reply #20 on:** March 31, 2013, 06:15:19 PM »

A good set of heads with a cam will bring the 460 alive along with a carb

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« **Reply #21 on:** March 31, 2013, 06:25:19 PM »

Would the carb help at all right now or is it held back too much with the heads?

« **Reply #22 on:** March 31, 2013, 06:45:34 PM »

Carb is a must regardless, 850 will be great unless you are looking to build a lot of power. If you want to build more power do everything at once.

« **Reply #23 on:** March 31, 2013, 07:14:18 PM »

post a pic of your boat, do you have a diverter?

« **Reply #24 on:** March 31, 2013, 08:14:32 PM »

I will when i can, I do not have a diverter. I have seen the hydraulic set ups but are there manual ones or do you have to do hydraulic?

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