We'll allow me to retort (In a Samuel L Jackson Pulpfiction voice)

The question of the topic was WATER PRESSURE

I control my PRESSURE from the regulator off the pump before it goes into my block and then it goes freely out

How do u guys control PRESSURE

Forget my thermostat that's just how I control temp and before u respond read the first response I posted

QuickOlds is worried about blown gaskets which is what is gonna happen if you screw your gate valve adjustment up
my way bet u dollars to doughnuts not gonna blow a gasket from too much pressure
And my way lets u have seperate control of you header cooling without disturbing block coolant = My Bassett's still gorgeous

Whos running a regulator off ther pump and what one do you recodmend workin on the boat today and wanted to get the plumbing done thanks for info

Well like everyone said its preference and my set up is a bit of a cluster to look at but it's what I want, I run a 4in length brass nipple off the pump with a ball valve(instant on/off oh sh!t valve) followed by a brass T with my pressure regulator set at 15-18psi (so i no blow hoses) and a gate valve to adjust my flow. My set up my peace of mind.

Well like everyone said its preference and my set up is a bit of a cluster to look at but it's what I want, I run a 4in length brass nipple off the pump with a ball valve(instant on/off oh sh!t valve) followed by a brass T with my pressure regulator set at 15-18psi (so i no blow hoses) and a gate valve to adjust my flow. My set up my peace of mind.

Hopefully constructive criticism.

Take the nipple off the pump and use a couple of push lock barb fittings and hose clamp them with silicone hose hose clamps and good quality hose.

The nipple is too rigid and susceptible to breakage due to vibration. If this does break, the boat has no choice but to visit Davy Jones locker...

I know its hard to see at first what I'm trying to explain
And I'd like to say I'm not disregarding any thoughts or info or trying to argue just trying to give a lil something to think about

Engine coolant. Pump to Reg to water pump port through block out thermostat housing (one port) then over board

Exhaust coolant (u want a fine mist) second port of thermostat to bassett inlet out heade. U could use any water port from manifold for the water source for your exhaust coolant Point is they are divorced systems u can now control water flow to header without building block BACK PRESSURE

This set up regulates PRESSURE before entering and no other time is regulated out to cause back PRESSURE in block
A gate inlet which adjusts flow (fine goin in block) your issue is the gate limiting flow and PRESSURE out while your trying to control flow to control temp your your risking building PRESSURE inside your block and or bluing your headers
You can get the right combo with gates by adjusting this and that but to get a set temp plus no back pressure but god water flow to your exhaust.... WHY WORK SO HARD TO ACHEIVE IT
HEY JACK I JUST SET IT AND FORGET IT (uncle Si)

I totally understand where your coming from, but colder is actually better in most cases. That is as long as you can get the oil temperature up to boil off any condensation. My argument was not against you directly, just saying skinning a cat can have numerous instructions.

I have built thermostatic pressure valves for certain projects and ended up having way too much money tied up in something that ultimately is not required.

GT

Well, I'm here in Nor Cal and put my boat in a lake - Not 50* River water.

I'd like to add this Fact - Engine Running 12 psi with water will have to run over 200* to boil the water.

Please expalin how an engine running colder works best in most cases???  An engine running colder is hard to get good viscosity with the oil and will be harder for the parts to move resulting in loss of power and more wear on parts.

An engine running close to 200* will burn the fuel better (By vaporizing more fuel) wich gives more cumbustion and your oil will protect your moving parts better.

But I'm all ears on how a colder motor works better?
Will the boat run cold as hell - Yes
Does a gate valve setup work - Yes
Can a person get the gate valve water flow through block and Wet Stacks work - Yes
Can a person get the ratio wrong - Yes and you could end up with  blue headers, water in oil, blown gaskets,
I'm just asking why do you wanna keep adjusting valves?
The begining of the Thread was Water Pressure and I do not think with a gate valve system you can control it as well as by using a regulator.  The old Thermostat was the other side of that coin to control temp cuz they go hand in hand.

Seems like alot of people ask about this subject just rying to get as much info and thoughts out there as possible and I'm hearing all your opinions

Thanks

I am not going to come out here and say you are 100% wrong. I am also not calling you out. Not how I roll.

What I will say is, the engine does not have to run at 200 degrees to boil the water.... The fact is that it can boil the water at 120 degrees gauge temperature because the temperature of the cooling water is a mean average, not linear. As flow slows down (as it would with a thermostat and or a pressure regulator) and creates hot spots, also referred to as stream pockets.

I will follow up with more once I am in front of an actual computer, this phone thing is killing me...

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Let's try this again... 

Well, I'm here in Nor Cal and put my boat in a lake - Not 50* River water.

IMHO makes no difference what temperature the water is with either system...

I'd like to add this Fact - Engine Running 12 psi with water will have to run over 200* to boil the water.

You are actually really incorrect on this... In short because you are introducing water to the front of the engine, which just happens to be the same place you are letting it out. There is no other means of moving the water throughout the block, so the rear of the engine could literally be running at 240*F when your gauge is reading 160*. Water takes the path of least resistance. That is just simple physics.

Please expalin how an engine running colder works best in most cases???  An engine running colder is hard to get good viscosity with the oil and will be harder for the parts to move resulting in loss of power and more wear on parts.

Your are really close on this one...
Which is why it is imperative that when building the engine in the first place that the running temperatures are taken into account. There are numerous threads on this forum that talk about proper clearances when building a true "jet boat motor". The oil viscosity thing is incorrect though, the water temperatures the engine runs has little to do with oil temperatures/viscosity, most of the engines that have been used in the jet boat industry have very little contact between water jackets and oil passageways.

Load on the engine and combustion are what heats the crankcase oil.

An engine running close to 200* will burn the fuel better (By vaporizing more fuel) wich gives more cumbustion and your oil will protect your moving parts better.

Nope. Fact; the largest reason automotive engines have thermostatic controls is for lowering emissions and the ability to run tighter tolerances so they can run 200,000 miles at freeway speeds.

The colder you can get an engine to run, the more "heat" you can put into the combustion chamber, heat being air/fuel. More air/fuel = more HP. The one thing the warmer temperatures can do is improve driveablilty and potentially fuel economy, but I doubt seriously it can be measured in a jet that virtually does not even move at anything below1500 rpm.

But I'm all ears on how a colder motor works better?

No one said it worked better, but there is the argument of "just as well" without the bells and whistles that could potentially get clogged with sand/crap and fail.

Will the boat run cold as hell - Yes

Like a raped baboon.

Does a gate valve setup work - Yes

So what's the discussion?

Can a person get the gate valve water flow through block and Wet Stacks work - Yes

This is actually quite simple to get to work... It becomes a "set it and forget it" 90% of the time.

Can a person get the ratio wrong - Yes and you could end up with  blue headers, water in oil, blown gaskets,
I'm just asking why do you wanna keep adjusting valves?

The same thing holds true with a regulator and relief set up, those items are not maintenance free and bullet proof, these valves were made for either city water or treated water, the last time I checked, the water coming out of the lake/rivers is anything but clean. Being a union pipefitter, you will just have to trust me on that one.

The begining of the Thread was Water Pressure and I do not think with a gate valve system you can control it as well as by using a regulator.  The old Thermostat was the other side of that coin to control temp cuz they go hand in hand.

If the the water has more ways of getting out than getting in, it becomes pretty evident that it will work if everything is sized appropriately. It is when this is not done right that problems occur. One of the guys we boat with quite frequently has a 1979 Miller with an Oldsmobile and the Hobbs meter shows 770 hours last time I looked at it, the engine has been out twice, once for a rear main seal leak and once to reset the intake due to an unfortunate meeting between the bottom of a river an the intake fins. Runs right to 5,000 RPM and does an honest 65 MPH. I want to say the temperature gauge never shows more than 150 degrees at idle and runs about 120 degrees balls out.

Seems like alot of people ask about this subject just rying to get as much info and thoughts out there as possible and I'm hearing all your opinions

Thanks

It is y opinion that this is often way over thought. I am guilty of it myself when we were racing river jets... I always found myself ripping all the accessories out and going back to an $18 Red and White ten turn gate valve and a tie wrap. If you really think about it, there are no moving parts, nothing to wear out, fewer hoses to potentially leak and easy to explain how it all works.

I respect your opinion and understand where you are coming from, but facts are facts. Just one last point, if your engine was machined with jet boat tolerances (a tad more rod/main bearing clearances and more piston to cylinder wall clearances) and you ran it at 160 or 180 degrees, I am not sure how long she will play nice.

You have to remember that my dad owned and operated an automotive parts store and machine shop for over 30 years and my uncle was his machinist for nearly 20 of those years and his shop was right down the street from Gromm racing heads in San Jose, so to say I have been around it for a while is the understatement of the century..

Be safe and have fun.

stop pickin on my thermostat


HOW DOES YOUR GATE REGULATE PRESSURE.

Right on GT thats what I wanted to hear...

This thread is pressure and You just said I am running the same PRESSURE under every load scenario.

I'm not talkning about flow or temps or any of that I'm trying to concentrate on pressure

You are absolutely right a (closed Loop) in a car does need a cap that relieves under the hood but mine isnt a closed loop theres no restriction coming out the block

I'm waiting to hear how you control pressure with a gate valve not water flow pressure in the block???

Easy... Simple physics again. Lets just say I have my gate valve about three turns open (which works out to be about 30% give or take). The Bassett tee I use has an 8 pound spring in it ( I think) and my dump valve is 7/16" inside diameter.

With that restriction of the incoming water FLOW, there is no way it can exceed a PRESSURE that will cause any harm.

If you find the pressure runs too high, use a larger dump fitting... The flow on the headers is extremely small, so even with them shut off, it really has no effect on block pressure.

Set the gate valve so the water to the headers comes in between 1500 and 1800 RPM, the temperature will pretty much float around between 120 and 170 degrees F, my junk typically idles around 1100, so I seldom see more than about 155*F.


Variable flow would basically keep the temperatures fairly consistent, basically because the pump pressure goes up as the pump speed increases. Works like magic.

GT

So you have one Gate off the pump Then into the block then two lines on to the Bassett TEE and one to a port overboard?  Or to another Gate then overboard?

Goes like this...

Pump to gate valve, to tee, to front of block, out of stat housing (no stat   ) twice, once to control tee, other to dump line... (no valve)..

Gt

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Well next time your installing a gate valve ask an Operator what it does and if its a variable valve

He will tell you yeah on On Off.

You just happen to have a set up but you arent controlling the temp and You are only roughly controlling flow

The engine likes cold air into the intake the more Air the better the colder mixed with fuel the better not to run cold temps in the block it likes a constant operating temp.

Don't tell me about what the oil likes I'm down the street from an engine room with blown apart engines and sitting here in Richmond Ca where that oil is made.  Its made over here in RLOP Richmond Oil Lube here @ Chevron. 

By the way we have a few regulators and gate valves.

Guess which one is variable flow.

 guess what flows on the ring inside the block guess what if it likes some heat. the oil how can a person conrtol that emp as steady as possible with a thermostat

How is your pressure controlled when your WOT or cruising How do you even know how do you know what pressure is in your block?

by the way I like Stella Artois

It is funny but How many people have milky oil?  How many can't adjust the setup easily to the right ratio?  How many people blue the headers?  How many people have gasket issues?

Listen to the pipe fitter run ur gate

Or try my way

By the way I'm a High Pressure Process Head Operator.  Guess what I do control process to a set pressure and temp. To perform tests on Research units for Catalyst development. 



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Well next time your installing a gate valve ask an Operator what it does and if its a variable valve

Ask him tha same question if the valve is three to five times larger than it needs to be....

He will tell you yeah on On Off.

And he would be right..... Unless it is used to regulate flow. 

You just happen to have a set up but you arent controlling the temp and You are only roughly controlling flow

I already stated that the temp will be between 120* and 155*F, that's as good as with a stat. You are just seeing constant temps leaving the block, not necessarily controlling the engine temp better.

The engine likes cold air into the intake the more Air the better the colder mixed with fuel the better not to run cold temps in the block it likes a constant operating temp.

says who? If I could run a drag car at 120* I would be all over that.

Don't tell me about what the oil likes I'm down the street from an engine room with blown apart engines and sitting here in Richmond Ca where that oil is made.  Its made over here in RLOP Richmond Oil Lube here @ Chevron. 

What does this have to do with anything? Oil likes to be warm enough to keep the water boiled out of it, that's all... Too hot and the viscosity drops off, too cold and it sweats and milks... I don't use petrolium based oils in anything, but that is another thread entirely.

By the way we have a few regulators and gate valves. Guess which one is variable flow.

Technically speaking, all of them, if there is any hint of pressure drop, they reduce flow........

guess what flows on the ring inside the block guess what if it likes some heat. the oil how can a person conrtol that emp as steady as possible with a thermostat

I missed something in there somewhere..

How is your pressure controlled when your WOT or cruising How do you even know how do you know what pressure is in your block?

That's pretty easy, if the headers are coming in before about 1500 RPM, there will be too much pressure.... Much after 1800 RPM it will run hot because of insufficient flow.

by the way I like Stella Artois

Had one once, pretty good shizzle... I am a micro brew kind of guy, I live right down the street from El Toro Brewery and am a fan of  their Poppy Jasper Ale, also dig on Fat Tire, Sierra Nevada Pale Ale and have been known to knock down quite a few Pete's Wicked Ales...


GT

Do yourself a favor Google a gate valve.  You don't know wtf your talking about.

U don't know shit about motors if u think a performance motor should run at 120*

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